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Well, I said I would make a topic for this when I had something to show. I'll use this topic as a way to track progress on this project. As I've seen other people have done in the past. My apologies if this violates any forum rule, and I would expect it would be removed.

After some research, I've decided to see how far I can go using DevkitSMS. I played around with it a bit in VSCode, and I really dig it. I need some specific things for the asset side, however, so I decided to write a wrapper UI around it, to make my life easier. Tentatively called Dev SMS. So my current status is developing that tool. Which will basically be an enhanced tool that I created many years ago (GMare).

My goal is to get a proof of concept out. This will include all screens needed to play through stage 1. (Titles, Intros, Attract Mode, Game Over etc.. etc..)

Progress phases:

Phase 01
Finish scene roof landing

Phase 02
Complete all turtle states
Test states
Complete all foot states
Test states
Create foot AI

Phase 03:
Complete Roadkill Rodney states
Roadkill Rodney AI
Test states

Phase 03:
Complete Rocksteady states
Roadkill Rocksteady AI
Finish stage 01 Ending Scene

Phase 04:
Finish remaining game logic flow:
Game Over, Player select, HUD Update
Roll out demo of everything up to the end of stage 01

Thanks for viewing!

sms_tmnt_0005.png (18.5 KB)

Title Screen WIP

sms_tmnt_0003.png (5.73 KB)

Konami Screen WIP

sms_tmnt_0007.png (21.59 KB)

DevkitSMS test of drawing/tile flipping

sms_tmnt_0006.png (40.71 KB)

Dev SMS importing WIP

sms_tmnt_0004.png (26.17 KB)

Game start intro WIP

sms_tmnt_0002.png (10.73 KB)

Sprite dev WIP

sms_tmnt_0001.png (22.73 KB)

Stage 1 and sprite palette arrangement for various foot soldiers

It looks wonderful, great job!

One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against.

Bock wrote

It looks wonderful, great job!

One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against.

Thank you for the heads up. From previous conversations, I'm aware of it. I'm sure it'll be a flicker fest, something I will eventually have to deal with, and experiment on getting the best results for.

WOW!! I'll follow this thread for sure. S2

I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo.

In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes.

But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave. Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows?

By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience.

In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon).

rouken wrote

I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo.

I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself.

rouken wrote

In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes.

But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave.

Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out.

rouken wrote

Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows?

I would at least like to give the Rocksteady and Bebop battle a try.

rouken wrote

By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience.

I definitely want to bring everything over from the NES version, and more, but try to make it more organic though. The whole snow stage isn't really explained, and it feels disconnected from the game. Plus, I dunno, snowball throwing foot seems lame. lol Let's do it up like sub-zero instead, or some other great idea. Basically, level wise, similar to the NES version, but graphics more inspired by the Arcade version, or some sort of mix in between.

I love the option idea! That's a keeper.

I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol

rouken wrote

In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon).

It's all WIP at the moment. I was mainly concerned about the tile count and palette setup. So that came first. With consideration that I would ultimately need space for the turtles jumping off the edge. The image wouldn't appear like that in game, with the speech bubbles all at one time, however.

I forget the exact amount of tiles I calculated and tested, but for the most part, it's doable, without losing too much of the original. I did align the speech bubbles to the grid where it wouldn't look too janky. Just in case I need to do it that way.

Hey xfixium, I am very glad to realize that your new project has new topic. I can't wait to know and read any news you want to share with us.

I can say that TMNT for our favourite consoles is a dream I had never believed that could be true.

It is near impossible for me trying to explain what I feel with every single image you share about this game, and even worse when It is not in my native languaje.

Thank you!.

Great game. And Difficult. Played a lot the arcade version (difficult skeeting stage). Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites).

Wow, it looks amazing! As a huge fan of the original turtles series, I hope you will finish your project one day.

Molto fantastico, dude!

That looks AMAZING!

I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS).

I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments).

eruiz00 wrote

Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites).

I'd love to see a Simpsons port to Master System too.

But instead of using arcade sprites the best choice would be ripping graphics from the MS-DOS version.
They probably would fit SMS very well.

2ca0a4a0-1216-487f-887f-12a73b5b4d19_zps4xioqt7j.png (13.73 KB)

2ddcd9b8-343e-4613-93f7-5edd210444a9_zps8licfjde.png (14.66 KB)

macbee wrote

I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS).

I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments).

I like 'em! On the splash screen, I see you did some custom dithering on Donatello for his pads, nice. Interesting choice of colors as well. The dark green for them was the other color I was going back and forth on, before settling for the more army green color. They're both good choices imo. It was hard to make my mind up.

I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison.

sms_tmnt_0008.png (16.78 KB)

I used red instead of the pink, just to get a dark red into the palette

sms_tmnt_0009.png (15.52 KB)

Player select WIP. In the editor I'm making, I'm going to have a UI function where you can choose what tiles you want to draw when defining a tilemap. So you can "punch holes" in them

Dev SMS looks very interesting too.

Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations!

I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2).

Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates!

xfixium wrote

I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself.

The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself.

After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think?

But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers.

So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.

xfixium wrote

Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out.

That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite.

A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point.

xfixium wrote

I love the option idea! That's a keeper.

Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version.

xfixium wrote

I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol

I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof).

xfixium wrote

On the splash screen

I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version.

My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center...

xfixium wrote

I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison.

I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off...

By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo...

macbee wrote

Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations!

I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2).

And since you’ve noticed dither on Donatello I’ll attach the last of the mockups I did back on 2013: Title screen with *lots* of dithering (I have no idea if it would look good on a CRT TV or if it would generate too many artifacts).

Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates!

I must say this mockup looks terrific!! Awesome dithering work. S2

It's just missing the "(c) Konami 1998" in the botton of the screen, and the TM is in a different place. Plus, the trademark lines are off-center, but it can be corrected with a proper "parallax trick". After all, I would love to see this screen animated with the same movements of the Arcade version, once it's very possible on the SMS.

Konami.jpg (33.98 KB)

Dithering is life. S2

Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.

rouken wrote

The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself.

After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think?

The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now.

rouken wrote

But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers.

So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.

I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

rouken wrote

That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite.

A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point.

I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc....

rouken wrote

Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version.

I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed.

rouken wrote

I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof).

I was thinking of this. If possible, secret or unlockable characters. One step at a time however.

rouken wrote

I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version.

My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center...

I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle.

rouken wrote

I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off...

By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo...

Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles.

I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution!

Kagesan wrote

Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.

Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well.

sms_tmnt_0010.png (11.31 KB)

All Konami assets currently

sms_tmnt_0011.png (13.36 KB)

High score turtle profile colors

sms_tmnt_0012.png (9.19 KB)

Other profile stuff

sms_sf2_0003.png (29.34 KB)

Just for giggles, SF2 hacking mock up that I put together one night. I believe last time I checked, I was almost at the correct tile amount.

I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2).

Good luck with your TMNT project !

Revo wrote

I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2).

Good luck with your TMNT project !

Thanks!

At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future.

xfixium wrote

The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now.

Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.

I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total.

The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV...

Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think?

xfixium wrote

I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming...

xfixium wrote

I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc....

Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :)

xfixium wrote

I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed.

For the feedback... My body is ready...

xfixium wrote

I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle.

Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example.

What do your think of the result?

xfixium wrote

Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles.

I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution!

If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go.

I got your job and did an Arcade-like grey scale version to check if each art will be as good in the SMS palette, and, surprise, it gets a nice looking... if the idea is to replicate the Arcade looking. The arts uses just two shades of gray, plus black. No white was used...

I think you can change the palette of the colored turtles to gray-style with simple palette change to spare memory... The four turtles uses 15 values of 15 colors... But you will must separate some colors per turtle... Leo uses 11 colors alone, Mike 9, Donny 11, and Raph 11... Just this will exceed the number of colors the SMS palette can store. Without counting some turtles must have more colors slots filled with a same color to not mess the gray scale changing (I had some extra work with Mike and Raph in this part). So, I thing swaping tiles from gray scale to colored tiles is the way to go...

Kagesan wrote

Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.

xfixium wrote

Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well.

It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today.

But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version).

xfixium wrote

At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future.

I hope you can restore the missing special moves too...

Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M...

TMNT.gif (40.78 KB)

Konami.jpg (33.8 KB)

Player Select Grey Scale.jpg (34.47 KB)

This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?:

i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on

ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.

This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!

Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night!

rouken wrote

Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.

I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total.

The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV...

Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think?

I'll have to look further into this at some point. The thing that stuck out for me right off the bat, is that the graphic has to stand up to pixel perfect scaling as well. If played through an emulator.

rouken wrote

In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming...

Sounds great

rouken wrote

Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :)

It's pretty simple, 14 static colors, 1 variable color, depending on the enemy wave. I'll create an image at some point to show what I mean in better detail. Critique it from there.

rouken wrote

Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example.

What do your think of the result?

I love it, I think it'll do just fine.

rouken wrote

If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go.

Hmm, I'm on the fence, let's try both when the time comes, see what shakes from there. Same for your grayscale examples. Thanks for the work put in!

rouken wrote

It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today.

But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version).

I bought SOR 4 day one when it hit Steam, I got Neon when I had a PS3, me and a buddy of mine played 2 player a lot. I enjoyed them both. (On Neon he died a lot, I had to constantly save his ass lol)

rouken wrote

I hope you can restore the missing special moves too...

I'm just looking to replace the graphics for SF2, I have no plans to change anything with the logic (Nor am I capable of doing that, at this time). Basically, like what I did with Golden Axe, if possible.

rouken wrote

Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M...

I did take notice of this.

FeRcHuLeS wrote

i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on

I would definitely like to do this

FeRcHuLeS wrote

ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.

I think if it were to be accomplished, this would be the way, at least one of them would need to be tile based

FeRcHuLeS wrote

This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!

Ideas and feedback welcomed!

GiovanniFalco wrote

Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night!

lol sorry for the restlessness. I'll be picking at the SF2 rom here and there. This project is my priority, however.

rouken wrote

So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.

This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol.

It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are.

During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it.

Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end.

So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did.

I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo?

Here's a Mockup I did for either result if either of my suggestions get in.

Mutagen Sega.png (2.19 KB)

But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green.

TMNT4SMS SM3.png (3 KB)

For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag

ThatDamnCatgirl wrote

I wonder if you'll have FM

Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart.

It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?).

Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms!

segasonicfan wrote

Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms!

My understanding is that these are proof of concept images done in photoshop and not actually ingame shots.

Ah, makes sense

rouken wrote

So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.

xfixium wrote

I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

Well...

More about how this mock-up was builded HERE.

FeRcHuLeS wrote

This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?:

i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on

ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.

This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!

Voice samples on SMS is a risk because the game freezes while the sample is playing. But, according with Maxim...

Maxim wrote

It is CPU-based to time the samples, you can't really do anything while it is playing (except perhaps some extreme cases of small work with a lot of tricky code, or some glitchy sound). Some homebrew has audio played using the horizontal interrupt to time ~10kHz but I'm not sure how it works outside the visible area.

I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it.

Anyway, "Shellshock!" and "Pizza Time!" are voice elements from Turtles in Time, not from the first game. Specially if you have in account the first arcade game already have a good amount of voices, including some used for the musics (I'm not counting the TMNT theme).

The reason because the Rocksteady and Bebop fight was cut from the NES game is not only because of flickering, but also because the number of simultanious tiles the NES can display. The SMS can display more different tiles because the system can store more tiles. I suggested to overcome the NES limitation by offering more than one type of enemie per wave...

Wesker wrote

This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol.

It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are.

During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it.

Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end.

So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did.

We have a Konami expert here. Yeah... In fact, to do my work, I got three games: Both US and JP versions of Rocket Knight Adventures (SMD), Turtles in Time (SNES), and Detana!! TwinBee (PC Engine). I don't checked other games because the idea was to check the colors used in each system to make a better color choice and distribuition for a SMS version of the logo.

ThatDamnCatgirl wrote

I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo?

NewHorizon wrote

Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart.

The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation...

There's the Sonic 1 FM Music Hack topic... In this topic, it's said the musics was composed using OPLL/YM2413... I don't know how it works, but I supose it's not so easy to work with like a tracker.

Gustavo Firmino Cazonato, very talented tracker user and the one who ported the musics for the SMS Mega Man II port, always wished a tracker with YM2413 support. His favourite tracker to use is the DEFLEMASK, but this tracker never added YM2413 support up to now... but in one point in the past was discursed about add such thing... Maybe if Deflemask could have YM2413, we could have a lot of ROM hacks to add FM musics on SMS games... I would love to see some word from Delek about it...

The problem about having a game who uses both FM and PSG at the same time is it will be a problem if loaded on a stock Mark III with a FM Unit, once this combination will use the FM chip, and "disable" the PSG chip, like seen in THIS VIDEO.

To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations:
> A western Master System with the FM chip
> A western Master System without the FM chip
> A Mark III with the FM Unit
> A Mark III without the FM Unit
> A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default)

If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided:
> Full PSG sound
> Full FM sound
> Mixed PSG and FM sound

All the system combinations listed above can use the "Full PSG sound" option, only the systems with the FM chip can use the "Full FM sound" option, but the Mark III with the FM Unit is the only option with the FM chip who can not use the "Mixed PSG and FM sound".

About region change... Proper Sega Mark III support can be done in some portion... For example, the japanese version of the arcade game have the subtitle スーパー亀忍者 ("Super Kame Ninja"... Or "Super Ninja Turtles" in english) in the title screen. But there's another point here: The USA game is called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", while the european game uses the UK title "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles". In that case, a code to check the clock of the system can be used combined with the region check.

The Sega Mark III logo can be displayed if the game detect a japanese BIOS, but the Sega logo on western systems can be displayed if that said system don't display any Sega logo, like western Genesis / Mega Drive, or western Game Gears. Maybe can be some way to make the Sega logo be displayed on a Western Master System if the game detects the ROM is being loaded from a flashcart, like the Master Everdrive.

Anyway... Both the game's title and system's logo will depend on machine and region, who includes in this list: Sega Mark III, NTSC US Master System, NTSC JP Master System, PAL Master System, NTSC Sega Genesis, NTSC Mega Drive, PAL Mega Drive, NTSC US Game Gear, NTSC JP Game Gear, and PAL Game Gear.

In any case, in a scenario of game content depending on hardware check, detection codes of multiple scenarios will be needed. A good place to look about it is the SMS Test Suit, who have a lot of detection code.

Suggestion: Once there's this detection thing extravaganza, I would like to suggest a dedicated warning screen if the game is loaded on a SG-1000. Or, maybe, including a TMNT SG-1000 micro game in this warning screen (I think there's one SMS game who displays a warning screen if the game is played on a SG-1000...).

ThatDamnCatgirl wrote

But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green.

The problem is the Sega logo is loaded from the BIOS, who is loaded before the game. It's not possible to make the game's code be loaded before the BIOS code (from what I have knowledge). Add a Sega logo in the game's code without any detection condition will result in a double Sega logo if loaded on a real system, like what happens in SMS Streets of Rage 1, who plays the Sega logo from the BIOS, and, right after that, plays the Sega logo from the game (you can't see it happening if you run the game on an emulator and set the emulator to not show the BIOS, or on a SMD/GG via Master Gear Adapter).

ThatDamnCatgirl wrote

For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag

In this case it is very possible to be done, once the Sega Mark III logo is loaded from the game.

Maxim wrote

It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?).

Wait... Is it possible to make a SMS game on a cartridge intercept the SMS BIOS code to interfere of what will be displayed during the Sega logo? 0.0

Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea.

rouken wrote

I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it.

It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game.

rouken wrote

The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation...

There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS.

Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment.

Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious.

rouken wrote

To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations:
> A western Master System with the FM chip
> A western Master System without the FM chip
> A Mark III with the FM Unit
> A Mark III without the FM Unit
> A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default)

If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided:
> Full PSG sound
> Full FM sound
> Mixed PSG and FM sound

That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this:

;=================================================================================
; RAM
;=================================================================================

.ramsection "IO control byte" slot 3 priority 1000

IOControl db ; IO info left by BIOS at $C000

.ends

.ramsection "FM type" slot 3

FMType db ; 0 = PSG only, 1 = FM only, 2 = both

.ends

;=================================================================================
; Detect FM
;=================================================================================

; Expects I/O control information left by BIOS in $C000.
; Expects region information in a variable called Region: 1 = export, 0 = Japan
; Results: 0 = only psg, 1 = only FM, 2 = both

.section "detect FM" free

DetectFM:

ld a, (IOControl)
or $04 ; disable I/O chip
out ($3E), a

ld bc, $0000 ; reset counters

-: ld a, b
out ($F2), a ; output to the audio control port

in a, ($F2) ; read back
and %00000011 ; mask to bits 0-1 only
cp b ; check what is read is the same as what was written
jr nz, +

inc c ; c = # of times the result is the same

+: inc b ; increase counter
bit 2, b ; repeated four times?
jr z, - ; no? then repeat again

ld a, (IOControl)
out ($3E), a ; turn I/O chip back on

srl c ; 4 --> 2; 3, 2 --> 1; 0, 1 --> 0
ld a, c
bit 0, c ; check if PSG+FM (Japanese SMS) or PSG only
jr z, + ; yes? then transfer value directly

ld a, (Region) ; else check region: if Region = 1 (Export)
add a, c ; then 1 --> 2 (3rd party FM board), else 1 stays 1 unchanged (Mark III + FM unit)

+: ld (FMType), a ; store FM type

ret

.ends

However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later.

When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game...

Kagesan wrote

Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea.

Thanks, but I just used an idea already existed...

Kagesan wrote

It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game.

Really? Checking... Checked!! WTFFFFFFF!!! My mind is blowing UP!!

No, really... ichigobankai... You are a f***ing GENIUS!!

I just must ask: Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples? It would be awesome to listen SMS music using some samples like some NES musics.

Kagesan wrote

There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS.

Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment.

Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious.

A nice information... Thanks. I'll make sure to use this information nicely!!

Even so, I praying for a tracker with YM2413 support.

Kagesan wrote

That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this:

INCOMPREHENSIVE CONTENT FOR UNBLESSED HUMANS

If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work. The same thing goes for the region detection thing...

Kagesan wrote

However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later.

No problem... I was just worred about it too.

My work with the Konami logo was because it was my suggestion, but I did without thinking if it was possible. So, I embraced the logical part.

Other suggestions as just to help with some direction choices or point some orientations... For example, I don't know how a Rocksteady and Bebop battle can be done on a SMS, because the SMS can store and display more tiles than the NES, but the flicking problem will still be a big problem.

But, to start, I'm more worried about movement and collisions, who is the foundation of this project. But creating some demos like the Konami logo, the intro scene or the title screen is a nice way to give us a taste of what wait for the future...

Maxim wrote

When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game...

Oh, now I see! Now I get it. Now the pieces are falling into place...

Just one question: Is it possible to make the game recognize the version of the BIOS to make use of it from case-to-case? Example: The SMS1 BIOS have the Sega Master System logo with sound, but the SMS2 have just a Sega logo without sound...

rouken wrote

Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples?

Theoretically, yes, but I don't see how that's really feasable. You'd need a PSG replayer that uses some sort of special signal value to trigger samples, which doesn't exist (yet). You'd also have to sacrifice PSG channels, so the music would probably end up sounding weird if you're not very careful. Also, this would eat up a lot of cpu time you probably don't have to spare.

rouken wrote

If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work.

Another thing that needs to be kept in mind is that updating FM channels takes a lot more cpu time than updating PSG channels. Not quite as badly as playing samples, but enough for performance to take a hit. You can observe this for example with Power Strike/Aleste. Playing it with FM sound creates significantly more slowdown than with PSG sound only.

xfixium wrote

Well, I said I would make a topic for this when I had something to show. I'll use this topic as a way to track progress on this project. As I've seen other people have done in the past. My apologies if this violates any forum rule, and I would expect it would be removed.

After some research, I've decided to see how far I can go using DevkitSMS. I played around with it a bit in VSCode, and I really dig it. I need some specific things for the asset side, however, so I decided to write a wrapper UI around it, to make my life easier. Tentatively called Dev SMS. So my current status is developing that tool. Which will basically be an enhanced tool that I created many years ago (GMare).

My goal is to get a proof of concept out. This will include all screens needed to play through stage 1. (Titles, Intros, Attract Mode, Game Over etc.. etc..)

To Do List:
Finish 2 remaining intro screens.
Finish up player and enemy sprites
Finish Dev SMS
Actual code development

Thanks for viewing!

The project is beautiful! Still working on this beautiful tmnt game?

Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out!

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4

sms_tmnt_0016.png (18.28 KB)

Mock up

Very promising start. Congratulations.

I don't know the strategy you'll use to handle your sprites, but keep in minds that the SMS can't update really more than 20 tiles in 1 vblank (plus SAT and also music).
From what I see, each player is ~18/20 tiles so the game will be at 30fps.

Unless you want to do something like Golden Axe or Mortal Kombat, with tiles, but heavily suffer on palette choices and unsmooth movement.

ps. You can use 8x16 sprites which need some reflexion on preparation & placement but interesting on transfert to VRAM and preparation in ram (x2 less elements).

Kagesan wrote

Very promising start. Congratulations.

Thank you very much

ichigobankai wrote

I don't know the strategy you'll use to handle your sprites, but keep in minds that the SMS can't update really more than 20 tiles in 1 vblank (plus SAT and also music).
From what I see, each player is ~18/20 tiles so the game will be at 30fps.

Unless you want to do something like Golden Axe or Mortal Kombat, with tiles, but heavily suffer on palette choices and unsmooth movement.

ps. You can use 8x16 sprites which need some reflexion on preparation & placement but interesting on transfert to VRAM and preparation in ram (x2 less elements).

All very true. I already have the sprites in 8 x 16 mode. Looks like the nes did this as well. Overall, I think the number of sprites will be alright. I'm more worried about animated tiles, and the scrolling aspects. If I have to reduce some things, that will just have to be the way. It'll be touch and go for sure. Thanks for the advice.

you don't need to stream sprite tiles every frame, because anyway you don't have 60 different images for 1 second of movement, so you have to stagger the streaming of tiles, if you load the main hero sprites every 4 screen frames it's 15 fps and it's totally fine.

sverx wrote

you don't need to stream sprite tiles every frame, because anyway you don't have 60 different images for 1 second of movement, so you have to stagger the streaming of tiles, if you load the main hero sprites every 4 screen frames it's 15 fps and it's totally fine.

Thank you for the information, I'm sure this will get interesting the further I move on in it.

xfixium wrote

Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out!

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4

Well, this is a proof of we see stuff of quality by xfixium.I guess that about Konami laser, title screen scrolling... IMHO not is so relevant. If it will keep you away in memory, code and, more important, time wasted, you dont need worry now. If im coding i dont put it, except if dont will got a lot of work. The Nes original dont had it.
BTW, congratulations.

segarule wrote

Well, this is a proof of we see stuff of quality by xfixium.I guess that about Konami laser, title screen scrolling... IMHO not is so relevant. If it will keep you away in memory, code and, more important, time wasted, you dont need worry now. If im coding i dont put it, except if dont will got a lot of work. The Nes original dont had it.
BTW, congratulations.

Thank you, and yes, agreed. Still, it needs to kick the nes version's booty. XD

Looks awesome buddy with lots of potential. Will be keeping an eye on this one!! Well done.

xfixium wrote

Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out!

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4

About the flammes in the bottom.
You can easily animate them ;

- Make the map/flamme animation in blocs of 64px large (or whatever mutiple of 256px which make a full width screen)
- set an interrupt (or poll vcount) to get the line
- every X frames move the flammes scrolling of 64px (your bloc width value) to make a "fake" animation
- do not forget to cancel the raster/scroll after.

@ichigobankai - for best result you should use a few more frames, as 64 pixels means the flames will animate with 4 frames only. I would pick 32 pixels and have a much smoother animation. Successive frames should be arranged 5 (or 3) blocks apart for better effect, and h-scroll should add 32*5 (or 32*3) each time, so that it doesn't look like it's moving horizontally.

ichigobankai wrote

About the flammes in the bottom.
You can easily animate them ;

- Make the map/flamme animation in blocs of 64px large (or whatever mutiple of 256px which make a full width screen)
- set an interrupt (or poll vcount) to get the line
- every X frames move the flammes scrolling of 64px (your bloc width value) to make a "fake" animation
- do not forget to cancel the raster/scroll after.

Oh that's very clever, like a z80 zoetrope.

Not sure I follow the general idea. Are we talking about a horizontal raster effect, or something completely different? I'd have to see an example. I already made animations some time ago. Although, in all reality, I may only be able to get half of them in on stage load.

tmnt_gif_0001.gif (153.7 KB)

Mock up of flame animations

A little "visual" explanation

* cut your animation in X chunks (64px here)

NB. your chunk must be a multiple of 256 (so 16,32,64...)

* move it - the same width as your chunk 64px in this example) - every X frames (8 here)

32px chunks are a good choice to have something really "fluid" but not always compatible with design.

As Emrabt said, its exactly like a zoetrope ^^

1.png (25.17 KB)

2.png (26.64 KB)

ichigobankai wrote

A little "visual" explanation

* cut your animation in X chunks (64px here)

NB. your chunk must be a multiple of 256 (so 16,32,64...)

* move it - the same width as your chunk 64px in this example) - every X frames (8 here)

32px chunks are a good choice to have something really "fluid" but not always compatible with design.

As Emrabt said, its exactly like a zoetrope ^^

Ahhhhhh okay, thanks for the visualization. That makes a whole lot more sense. That's a very good idea. Very cheap tile wise, and you gain the benefit of the "animation". I'll have to implement that. Thanks!

Author	Message
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	SMS TMNT Homebrew Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:14 pm Last edited by xfixium on Sun May 19, 2024 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Well, I said I would make a topic for this when I had something to show. I'll use this topic as a way to track progress on this project. As I've seen other people have done in the past. My apologies if this violates any forum rule, and I would expect it would be removed. After some research, I've decided to see how far I can go using DevkitSMS. I played around with it a bit in VSCode, and I really dig it. I need some specific things for the asset side, however, so I decided to write a wrapper UI around it, to make my life easier. Tentatively called Dev SMS. So my current status is developing that tool. Which will basically be an enhanced tool that I created many years ago (GMare). My goal is to get a proof of concept out. This will include all screens needed to play through stage 1. (Titles, Intros, Attract Mode, Game Over etc.. etc..) Progress phases: Phase 01 Finish scene roof landing Phase 02 Complete all turtle states Test states Complete all foot states Test states Create foot AI Phase 03: Complete Roadkill Rodney states Roadkill Rodney AI Test states Phase 03: Complete Rocksteady states Roadkill Rocksteady AI Finish stage 01 Ending Scene Phase 04: Finish remaining game logic flow: Game Over, Player select, HUD Update Roll out demo of everything up to the end of stage 01 Thanks for viewing! sms_tmnt_0005.png (18.5 KB) Title Screen WIP sms_tmnt_0003.png (5.73 KB) Konami Screen WIP sms_tmnt_0007.png (21.59 KB) DevkitSMS test of drawing/tile flipping sms_tmnt_0006.png (40.71 KB) Dev SMS importing WIP sms_tmnt_0004.png (26.17 KB) Game start intro WIP sms_tmnt_0002.png (10.73 KB) Sprite dev WIP sms_tmnt_0001.png (22.73 KB) Stage 1 and sprite palette arrangement for various foot soldiers

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8708 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:30 pm
	It looks wonderful, great job! One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against.

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:41 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Bock wrote It looks wonderful, great job! One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against. Thank you for the heads up. From previous conversations, I'm aware of it. I'm sure it'll be a flicker fest, something I will eventually have to deal with, and experiment on getting the best results for.

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:36 pm
	WOW!! I'll follow this thread for sure. S2 I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo. In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes. But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave. Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows? By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience. In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon).

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:11 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	rouken wrote I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo. I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself. rouken wrote In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes. But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave. Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out. rouken wrote Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows? I would at least like to give the Rocksteady and Bebop battle a try. rouken wrote By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience. I definitely want to bring everything over from the NES version, and more, but try to make it more organic though. The whole snow stage isn't really explained, and it feels disconnected from the game. Plus, I dunno, snowball throwing foot seems lame. lol Let's do it up like sub-zero instead, or some other great idea. Basically, level wise, similar to the NES version, but graphics more inspired by the Arcade version, or some sort of mix in between. I love the option idea! That's a keeper. I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol rouken wrote In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon). It's all WIP at the moment. I was mainly concerned about the tile count and palette setup. So that came first. With consideration that I would ultimately need space for the turtles jumping off the edge. The image wouldn't appear like that in game, with the speech bubbles all at one time, however. I forget the exact amount of tiles I calculated and tested, but for the most part, it's doable, without losing too much of the original. I did align the speech bubbles to the grid where it wouldn't look too janky. Just in case I need to do it that way.

Aranya Joined: 02 Mar 2011 Posts: 173 Location: Valencia,Spain.	Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:11 am
	Hey xfixium, I am very glad to realize that your new project has new topic. I can't wait to know and read any news you want to share with us. I can say that TMNT for our favourite consoles is a dream I had never believed that could be true. It is near impossible for me trying to explain what I feel with every single image you share about this game, and even worse when It is not in my native languaje. Thank you!.

eruiz00 Joined: 28 Jan 2017 Posts: 556 Location: Málaga, Spain	Remembering... Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:53 am
	Great game. And Difficult. Played a lot the arcade version (difficult skeeting stage). Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites).

Gordman Joined: 21 Aug 2012 Posts: 365 Location: Berlin, Germany	Cowabunga! Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 am
	Wow, it looks amazing! As a huge fan of the original turtles series, I hope you will finish your project one day. Molto fantastico, dude!

gorgyrip Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 81	Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:35 am
gorgyrip Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 81	That looks AMAZING!

macbee Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 49 Location: Brazil	Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:19 pm
macbee Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 49 Location: Brazil	I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS). I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments). eruiz00 wrote Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites). I'd love to see a Simpsons port to Master System too. But instead of using arcade sprites the best choice would be ripping graphics from the MS-DOS version. They probably would fit SMS very well. 2ca0a4a0-1216-487f-887f-12a73b5b4d19_zps4xioqt7j.png (13.73 KB) 2ddcd9b8-343e-4613-93f7-5edd210444a9_zps8licfjde.png (14.66 KB)

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:02 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	macbee wrote I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS). I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments). I like 'em! On the splash screen, I see you did some custom dithering on Donatello for his pads, nice. Interesting choice of colors as well. The dark green for them was the other color I was going back and forth on, before settling for the more army green color. They're both good choices imo. It was hard to make my mind up. I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison. sms_tmnt_0008.png (16.78 KB) I used red instead of the pink, just to get a dark red into the palette sms_tmnt_0009.png (15.52 KB) Player select WIP. In the editor I'm making, I'm going to have a UI function where you can choose what tiles you want to draw when defining a tilemap. So you can "punch holes" in them

digress Joined: 20 Apr 2018 Posts: 6 Location: Canada	Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 am
digress Joined: 20 Apr 2018 Posts: 6 Location: Canada	Dev SMS looks very interesting too.

macbee Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 49 Location: Brazil	Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:28 am Last edited by macbee on Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
macbee Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 49 Location: Brazil	Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations! I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2). Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates!

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:28 pm
	xfixium wrote I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself. The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself. After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think? But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers. So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you. xfixium wrote Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out. That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point. xfixium wrote I love the option idea! That's a keeper. Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version. xfixium wrote I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof). xfixium wrote On the splash screen I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version. My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center... xfixium wrote I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison. I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off... By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo... macbee wrote Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations! I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2). And since you’ve noticed dither on Donatello I’ll attach the last of the mockups I did back on 2013: Title screen with lots of dithering (I have no idea if it would look good on a CRT TV or if it would generate too many artifacts). Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates! I must say this mockup looks terrific!! Awesome dithering work. S2 It's just missing the "(c) Konami 1998" in the botton of the screen, and the TM is in a different place. Plus, the trademark lines are off-center, but it can be corrected with a proper "parallax trick". After all, I would love to see this screen animated with the same movements of the Arcade version, once it's very possible on the SMS. Konami.jpg (33.98 KB) Dithering is life. S2

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:04 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	rouken wrote The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself. After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think? The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now. rouken wrote But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers. So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you. I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS. rouken wrote That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point. I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc.... rouken wrote Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version. I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed. rouken wrote I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof). I was thinking of this. If possible, secret or unlockable characters. One step at a time however. rouken wrote I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version. My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center... I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle. rouken wrote I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off... By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo... Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles. I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution! Kagesan wrote Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though. Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well. sms_tmnt_0010.png (11.31 KB) All Konami assets currently sms_tmnt_0011.png (13.36 KB) High score turtle profile colors sms_tmnt_0012.png (9.19 KB) Other profile stuff sms_sf2_0003.png (29.34 KB) Just for giggles, SF2 hacking mock up that I put together one night. I believe last time I checked, I was almost at the correct tile amount.

Revo Guest	Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:42 pm
Revo Guest	I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2). Good luck with your TMNT project !

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:27 am
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Revo wrote I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2). Good luck with your TMNT project ! Thanks! At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future.

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:41 pm
	xfixium wrote The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now. Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble. I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total. The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV... Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think? xfixium wrote I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS. In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming... xfixium wrote I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc.... Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :) xfixium wrote I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed. For the feedback... My body is ready... xfixium wrote I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle. Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example. What do your think of the result? xfixium wrote Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles. I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution! If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go. I got your job and did an Arcade-like grey scale version to check if each art will be as good in the SMS palette, and, surprise, it gets a nice looking... if the idea is to replicate the Arcade looking. The arts uses just two shades of gray, plus black. No white was used... I think you can change the palette of the colored turtles to gray-style with simple palette change to spare memory... The four turtles uses 15 values of 15 colors... But you will must separate some colors per turtle... Leo uses 11 colors alone, Mike 9, Donny 11, and Raph 11... Just this will exceed the number of colors the SMS palette can store. Without counting some turtles must have more colors slots filled with a same color to not mess the gray scale changing (I had some extra work with Mike and Raph in this part). So, I thing swaping tiles from gray scale to colored tiles is the way to go... Kagesan wrote Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though. xfixium wrote Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well. It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today. But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version). xfixium wrote At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future. I hope you can restore the missing special moves too... Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M... TMNT.gif (40.78 KB) Konami.jpg (33.8 KB) Player Select Grey Scale.jpg (34.47 KB)

FeRcHuLeS Joined: 22 Mar 2015 Posts: 228	Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:48 pm
FeRcHuLeS Joined: 22 Mar 2015 Posts: 228	This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?: i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping. This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!

GiovanniFalco Joined: 02 Mar 2021 Posts: 17 Location: Rome	Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:23 pm
	Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night!

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:23 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	rouken wrote Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble. I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total. The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV... Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think? I'll have to look further into this at some point. The thing that stuck out for me right off the bat, is that the graphic has to stand up to pixel perfect scaling as well. If played through an emulator. rouken wrote In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming... Sounds great rouken wrote Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :) It's pretty simple, 14 static colors, 1 variable color, depending on the enemy wave. I'll create an image at some point to show what I mean in better detail. Critique it from there. rouken wrote Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example. What do your think of the result? I love it, I think it'll do just fine. rouken wrote If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go. Hmm, I'm on the fence, let's try both when the time comes, see what shakes from there. Same for your grayscale examples. Thanks for the work put in! rouken wrote It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today. But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version). I bought SOR 4 day one when it hit Steam, I got Neon when I had a PS3, me and a buddy of mine played 2 player a lot. I enjoyed them both. (On Neon he died a lot, I had to constantly save his ass lol) rouken wrote I hope you can restore the missing special moves too... I'm just looking to replace the graphics for SF2, I have no plans to change anything with the logic (Nor am I capable of doing that, at this time). Basically, like what I did with Golden Axe, if possible. rouken wrote Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M... I did take notice of this. FeRcHuLeS wrote i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on I would definitely like to do this FeRcHuLeS wrote ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping. I think if it were to be accomplished, this would be the way, at least one of them would need to be tile based FeRcHuLeS wrote This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga! Ideas and feedback welcomed! GiovanniFalco wrote Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night! lol sorry for the restlessness. I'll be picking at the SF2 rom here and there. This project is my priority, however.

Wesker Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 161	Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm
Wesker Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 161	rouken wrote So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble. This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol. It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are. During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it. Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end. So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did.

ThatDamnCatgirl Joined: 08 Nov 2020 Posts: 16 Location: Gensokyo	TMNT: The Arcade Game For Sega Master System Project Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:10 am
	I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo? Here's a Mockup I did for either result if either of my suggestions get in. Mutagen Sega.png (2.19 KB) But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green. TMNT4SMS SM3.png (3 KB) For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 79	Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:00 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 79	ThatDamnCatgirl wrote I wonder if you'll have FM Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14983 Location: London	Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:13 pm
	It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?).

segasonicfan Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 417 Location: USA	Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:51 pm
	Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms!

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 79	Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:23 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 79	segasonicfan wrote Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms! My understanding is that these are proof of concept images done in photoshop and not actually ingame shots.

segasonicfan Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 417 Location: USA	Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:41 pm
	Ah, makes sense

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:13 pm Last edited by rouken on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
	rouken wrote So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you. xfixium wrote I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS. Well... More about how this mock-up was builded HERE. FeRcHuLeS wrote This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?: i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping. This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga! Voice samples on SMS is a risk because the game freezes while the sample is playing. But, according with Maxim... Maxim wrote It is CPU-based to time the samples, you can't really do anything while it is playing (except perhaps some extreme cases of small work with a lot of tricky code, or some glitchy sound). Some homebrew has audio played using the horizontal interrupt to time ~10kHz but I'm not sure how it works outside the visible area. I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it. Anyway, "Shellshock!" and "Pizza Time!" are voice elements from Turtles in Time, not from the first game. Specially if you have in account the first arcade game already have a good amount of voices, including some used for the musics (I'm not counting the TMNT theme). The reason because the Rocksteady and Bebop fight was cut from the NES game is not only because of flickering, but also because the number of simultanious tiles the NES can display. The SMS can display more different tiles because the system can store more tiles. I suggested to overcome the NES limitation by offering more than one type of enemie per wave... Wesker wrote This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol. It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are. During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it. Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end. So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did. We have a Konami expert here. Yeah... In fact, to do my work, I got three games: Both US and JP versions of Rocket Knight Adventures (SMD), Turtles in Time (SNES), and Detana!! TwinBee (PC Engine). I don't checked other games because the idea was to check the colors used in each system to make a better color choice and distribuition for a SMS version of the logo. ThatDamnCatgirl wrote I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo? NewHorizon wrote Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart. The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation... There's the Sonic 1 FM Music Hack topic... In this topic, it's said the musics was composed using OPLL/YM2413... I don't know how it works, but I supose it's not so easy to work with like a tracker. Gustavo Firmino Cazonato, very talented tracker user and the one who ported the musics for the SMS Mega Man II port, always wished a tracker with YM2413 support. His favourite tracker to use is the DEFLEMASK, but this tracker never added YM2413 support up to now... but in one point in the past was discursed about add such thing... Maybe if Deflemask could have YM2413, we could have a lot of ROM hacks to add FM musics on SMS games... I would love to see some word from Delek about it... The problem about having a game who uses both FM and PSG at the same time is it will be a problem if loaded on a stock Mark III with a FM Unit, once this combination will use the FM chip, and "disable" the PSG chip, like seen in THIS VIDEO. To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations: > A western Master System with the FM chip > A western Master System without the FM chip > A Mark III with the FM Unit > A Mark III without the FM Unit > A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default) If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided: > Full PSG sound > Full FM sound > Mixed PSG and FM sound All the system combinations listed above can use the "Full PSG sound" option, only the systems with the FM chip can use the "Full FM sound" option, but the Mark III with the FM Unit is the only option with the FM chip who can not use the "Mixed PSG and FM sound". About region change... Proper Sega Mark III support can be done in some portion... For example, the japanese version of the arcade game have the subtitle スーパー亀忍者 ("Super Kame Ninja"... Or "Super Ninja Turtles" in english) in the title screen. But there's another point here: The USA game is called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", while the european game uses the UK title "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles". In that case, a code to check the clock of the system can be used combined with the region check. The Sega Mark III logo can be displayed if the game detect a japanese BIOS, but the Sega logo on western systems can be displayed if that said system don't display any Sega logo, like western Genesis / Mega Drive, or western Game Gears. Maybe can be some way to make the Sega logo be displayed on a Western Master System if the game detects the ROM is being loaded from a flashcart, like the Master Everdrive. Anyway... Both the game's title and system's logo will depend on machine and region, who includes in this list: Sega Mark III, NTSC US Master System, NTSC JP Master System, PAL Master System, NTSC Sega Genesis, NTSC Mega Drive, PAL Mega Drive, NTSC US Game Gear, NTSC JP Game Gear, and PAL Game Gear. In any case, in a scenario of game content depending on hardware check, detection codes of multiple scenarios will be needed. A good place to look about it is the SMS Test Suit, who have a lot of detection code. Suggestion: Once there's this detection thing extravaganza, I would like to suggest a dedicated warning screen if the game is loaded on a SG-1000. Or, maybe, including a TMNT SG-1000 micro game in this warning screen (I think there's one SMS game who displays a warning screen if the game is played on a SG-1000...). ThatDamnCatgirl wrote But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green. The problem is the Sega logo is loaded from the BIOS, who is loaded before the game. It's not possible to make the game's code be loaded before the BIOS code (from what I have knowledge). Add a Sega logo in the game's code without any detection condition will result in a double Sega logo if loaded on a real system, like what happens in SMS Streets of Rage 1, who plays the Sega logo from the BIOS, and, right after that, plays the Sega logo from the game (you can't see it happening if you run the game on an emulator and set the emulator to not show the BIOS, or on a SMD/GG via Master Gear Adapter). ThatDamnCatgirl wrote For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag In this case it is very possible to be done, once the Sega Mark III logo is loaded from the game. Maxim wrote It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?). Wait... Is it possible to make a SMS game on a cartridge intercept the SMS BIOS code to interfere of what will be displayed during the Sega logo? 0.0

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:00 am
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea. rouken wrote I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it. It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game. rouken wrote The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation... There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS. Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment. Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious. rouken wrote To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations: > A western Master System with the FM chip > A western Master System without the FM chip > A Mark III with the FM Unit > A Mark III without the FM Unit > A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default) If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided: > Full PSG sound > Full FM sound > Mixed PSG and FM sound That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this: ;================================================================================= ; RAM ;================================================================================= .ramsection "IO control byte" slot 3 priority 1000 IOControl db ; IO info left by BIOS at $C000 .ends .ramsection "FM type" slot 3 FMType db ; 0 = PSG only, 1 = FM only, 2 = both .ends ;================================================================================= ; Detect FM ;================================================================================= ; Expects I/O control information left by BIOS in $C000. ; Expects region information in a variable called Region: 1 = export, 0 = Japan ; Results: 0 = only psg, 1 = only FM, 2 = both .section "detect FM" free DetectFM: ld a, (IOControl) or $04 ; disable I/O chip out ($3E), a ld bc, $0000 ; reset counters -: ld a, b out ($F2), a ; output to the audio control port in a, ($F2) ; read back and %00000011 ; mask to bits 0-1 only cp b ; check what is read is the same as what was written jr nz, + inc c ; c = # of times the result is the same +: inc b ; increase counter bit 2, b ; repeated four times? jr z, - ; no? then repeat again ld a, (IOControl) out ($3E), a ; turn I/O chip back on srl c ; 4 --> 2; 3, 2 --> 1; 0, 1 --> 0 ld a, c bit 0, c ; check if PSG+FM (Japanese SMS) or PSG only jr z, + ; yes? then transfer value directly ld a, (Region) ; else check region: if Region = 1 (Export) add a, c ; then 1 --> 2 (3rd party FM board), else 1 stays 1 unchanged (Mark III + FM unit) +: ld (FMType), a ; store FM type ret .ends However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14983 Location: London	Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 am
	When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game...

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:17 pm
	Kagesan wrote Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea. Thanks, but I just used an idea already existed... Kagesan wrote It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game. Really? Checking... Checked!! WTFFFFFFF!!! My mind is blowing UP!! No, really... ichigobankai... You are a fing GENIUS!! I just must ask: Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples? It would be awesome to listen SMS music using some samples like some NES musics*. Kagesan wrote There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS. Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment. Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious. A nice information... Thanks. I'll make sure to use this information nicely!! Even so, I praying for a tracker with YM2413 support. Kagesan wrote That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this: INCOMPREHENSIVE CONTENT FOR UNBLESSED HUMANS If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work. The same thing goes for the region detection thing... Kagesan wrote However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later. No problem... I was just worred about it too. My work with the Konami logo was because it was my suggestion, but I did without thinking if it was possible. So, I embraced the logical part. Other suggestions as just to help with some direction choices or point some orientations... For example, I don't know how a Rocksteady and Bebop battle can be done on a SMS, because the SMS can store and display more tiles than the NES, but the flicking problem will still be a big problem. But, to start, I'm more worried about movement and collisions, who is the foundation of this project. But creating some demos like the Konami logo, the intro scene or the title screen is a nice way to give us a taste of what wait for the future... Maxim wrote When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game... Oh, now I see! Now I get it. Now the pieces are falling into place... Just one question: Is it possible to make the game recognize the version of the BIOS to make use of it from case-to-case? Example: The SMS1 BIOS have the Sega Master System logo with sound, but the SMS2 have just a Sega logo without sound...

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:08 am
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	rouken wrote Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples? Theoretically, yes, but I don't see how that's really feasable. You'd need a PSG replayer that uses some sort of special signal value to trigger samples, which doesn't exist (yet). You'd also have to sacrifice PSG channels, so the music would probably end up sounding weird if you're not very careful. Also, this would eat up a lot of cpu time you probably don't have to spare. rouken wrote If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work. Another thing that needs to be kept in mind is that updating FM channels takes a lot more cpu time than updating PSG channels. Not quite as badly as playing samples, but enough for performance to take a hit. You can observe this for example with Power Strike/Aleste. Playing it with FM sound creates significantly more slowdown than with PSG sound only.

Ray Joined: 20 Sep 2021 Posts: 2 Location: Brazil	TMNT SMS Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:43 pm
Ray Joined: 20 Sep 2021 Posts: 2 Location: Brazil	xfixium wrote Well, I said I would make a topic for this when I had something to show. I'll use this topic as a way to track progress on this project. As I've seen other people have done in the past. My apologies if this violates any forum rule, and I would expect it would be removed. After some research, I've decided to see how far I can go using DevkitSMS. I played around with it a bit in VSCode, and I really dig it. I need some specific things for the asset side, however, so I decided to write a wrapper UI around it, to make my life easier. Tentatively called Dev SMS. So my current status is developing that tool. Which will basically be an enhanced tool that I created many years ago (GMare). My goal is to get a proof of concept out. This will include all screens needed to play through stage 1. (Titles, Intros, Attract Mode, Game Over etc.. etc..) To Do List: Finish 2 remaining intro screens. Finish up player and enemy sprites Finish Dev SMS Actual code development Thanks for viewing! The project is beautiful! Still working on this beautiful tmnt game?

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:39 pm Last edited by xfixium on Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out! https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4 sms_tmnt_0016.png (18.28 KB) Mock up

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:26 pm
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 895	Very promising start. Congratulations.

ichigobankai Joined: 04 Jul 2010 Posts: 547 Location: Angers, France	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:18 pm
	I don't know the strategy you'll use to handle your sprites, but keep in minds that the SMS can't update really more than 20 tiles in 1 vblank (plus SAT and also music). From what I see, each player is ~18/20 tiles so the game will be at 30fps. Unless you want to do something like Golden Axe or Mortal Kombat, with tiles, but heavily suffer on palette choices and unsmooth movement. ps. You can use 8x16 sprites which need some reflexion on preparation & placement but interesting on transfert to VRAM and preparation in ram (x2 less elements).

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:26 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Kagesan wrote Very promising start. Congratulations. Thank you very much ichigobankai wrote I don't know the strategy you'll use to handle your sprites, but keep in minds that the SMS can't update really more than 20 tiles in 1 vblank (plus SAT and also music). From what I see, each player is ~18/20 tiles so the game will be at 30fps. Unless you want to do something like Golden Axe or Mortal Kombat, with tiles, but heavily suffer on palette choices and unsmooth movement. ps. You can use 8x16 sprites which need some reflexion on preparation & placement but interesting on transfert to VRAM and preparation in ram (x2 less elements). All very true. I already have the sprites in 8 x 16 mode. Looks like the nes did this as well. Overall, I think the number of sprites will be alright. I'm more worried about animated tiles, and the scrolling aspects. If I have to reduce some things, that will just have to be the way. It'll be touch and go for sure. Thanks for the advice.

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:09 pm
	you don't need to stream sprite tiles every frame, because anyway you don't have 60 different images for 1 second of movement, so you have to stagger the streaming of tiles, if you load the main hero sprites every 4 screen frames it's 15 fps and it's totally fine.

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:02 am
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	sverx wrote you don't need to stream sprite tiles every frame, because anyway you don't have 60 different images for 1 second of movement, so you have to stagger the streaming of tiles, if you load the main hero sprites every 4 screen frames it's 15 fps and it's totally fine. Thank you for the information, I'm sure this will get interesting the further I move on in it.

segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 458	Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:45 am
segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 458	xfixium wrote Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out! https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4 Well, this is a proof of we see stuff of quality by xfixium.I guess that about Konami laser, title screen scrolling... IMHO not is so relevant. If it will keep you away in memory, code and, more important, time wasted, you dont need worry now. If im coding i dont put it, except if dont will got a lot of work. The Nes original dont had it. BTW, congratulations.

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:20 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	segarule wrote Well, this is a proof of we see stuff of quality by xfixium.I guess that about Konami laser, title screen scrolling... IMHO not is so relevant. If it will keep you away in memory, code and, more important, time wasted, you dont need worry now. If im coding i dont put it, except if dont will got a lot of work. The Nes original dont had it. BTW, congratulations. Thank you, and yes, agreed. Still, it needs to kick the nes version's booty. XD

8BitBoy Joined: 15 Aug 2019 Posts: 295 Location: Lancashire UK	Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:34 pm
	Looks awesome buddy with lots of potential. Will be keeping an eye on this one!! Well done. xfixium wrote Sorry if I missed any responses on this project. It is still on my backburner. I have made some updates over the past month to various graphical resources. I've overhauled some of the nes placeholders, and finally did a small amount of coding through Devkit SMS. It's very early, so a bunch of the animations aren't applied yet. Things like the Konami laser, scrolling of the Title screen, sprite animations, no audio, etc.. etc.. I figure it's just easier to make a short video. Thanks for checking this out! https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_tmnt/videos/tmnt_0001.mp4

ichigobankai Joined: 04 Jul 2010 Posts: 547 Location: Angers, France	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:42 am
	About the flammes in the bottom. You can easily animate them ; - Make the map/flamme animation in blocs of 64px large (or whatever mutiple of 256px which make a full width screen) - set an interrupt (or poll vcount) to get the line - every X frames move the flammes scrolling of 64px (your bloc width value) to make a "fake" animation - do not forget to cancel the raster/scroll after.

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:29 am
	@ichigobankai - for best result you should use a few more frames, as 64 pixels means the flames will animate with 4 frames only. I would pick 32 pixels and have a much smoother animation. Successive frames should be arranged 5 (or 3) blocks apart for better effect, and h-scroll should add 325 (or 323) each time, so that it doesn't look like it's moving horizontally.

Emrabt Joined: 17 Aug 2021 Posts: 81	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:30 am
Emrabt Joined: 17 Aug 2021 Posts: 81	ichigobankai wrote About the flammes in the bottom. You can easily animate them ; - Make the map/flamme animation in blocs of 64px large (or whatever mutiple of 256px which make a full width screen) - set an interrupt (or poll vcount) to get the line - every X frames move the flammes scrolling of 64px (your bloc width value) to make a "fake" animation - do not forget to cancel the raster/scroll after. Oh that's very clever, like a z80 zoetrope.

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:04 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Not sure I follow the general idea. Are we talking about a horizontal raster effect, or something completely different? I'd have to see an example. I already made animations some time ago. Although, in all reality, I may only be able to get half of them in on stage load. tmnt_gif_0001.gif (153.7 KB) Mock up of flame animations

ichigobankai Joined: 04 Jul 2010 Posts: 547 Location: Angers, France	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:55 pm
	A little "visual" explanation * cut your animation in X chunks (64px here) NB. your chunk must be a multiple of 256 (so 16,32,64...) * move it - the same width as your chunk 64px in this example) - every X frames (8 here) 32px chunks are a good choice to have something really "fluid" but not always compatible with design. As Emrabt said, its exactly like a zoetrope ^^ 1.png (25.17 KB) 2.png (26.64 KB)

xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:16 pm
xfixium Joined: 18 Jul 2020 Posts: 392	ichigobankai wrote A little "visual" explanation * cut your animation in X chunks (64px here) NB. your chunk must be a multiple of 256 (so 16,32,64...) * move it - the same width as your chunk 64px in this example) - every X frames (8 here) 32px chunks are a good choice to have something really "fluid" but not always compatible with design. As Emrabt said, its exactly like a zoetrope ^^ Ahhhhhh okay, thanks for the visualization. That makes a whole lot more sense. That's a very good idea. Very cheap tile wise, and you gain the benefit of the "animation". I'll have to implement that. Thanks!

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